Punishment For Friendly Fire

[Lexion]

It seems to be a hot subject, how should it be treated?

[Zulu]

i would say xp loss is the best way but i like the red flagged idea

[Lexion]

The only prob with xp loss is that it wont apply to a first or last lvl character. Meaning you can create a new char just to team kill.

[Zulu]

true :? :( uh then i'd probably go with either redflagged or rooted

[Markus]

i say that the other people around should deal with it, if i were to shoot some one in a clan which i am a part of, and blow off their head, i would expect those around to deal with it IC, or if they find it is a OOC issue ( ic = in character , OOC = out of character ) then deal with it, but not for the game to decide that because of that i deserve any of your option's that you gave.

[Lexion]

Thats all fine of course, Im thinking more along the lines of ppl who purposely team kills, all day long.

[Zulu]

they do exist :evil:

[Deadlock]

Options:
1. Xp loss
2. Weapon lockup for a set time
3. Ejected from battle zone for set amount of time
4. You become red flagged after awhile (target for both sides in a battle)
5. Health loss, twice amount as you do to your race mate
6. Rooted, frozen in place for set amount of time
7. Blinded for set amount of time

Many of these solutions would also really damage a person who accidentally kills a teammate while trying to help him. (option 2,3,5,6,7)

Option 4 is a good solution yet I can imagine the community instantly shooting anyone with a red flag to avoid getting shot themselves since there's no way of seeing it was intentional/unintentional

That leaves option 1, XP loss. If you unintentionally kill a teammate you wont be affected by it that much if you just watch your fire, while at the same time ppl who continuousely teamkill will most definately feel the pain

To avoid ppl making a 'teamkillaccount' there's also another option of seperating free-for-all games vs clangames, for example: If XP loss isnt severe enough perhaps a line should be set where as you dont get negative effects while shooting clanmembers and you do when shooting random teammates. (That doesn't make it better for friends who play for different clans tho).

In fact, perhaps Xp loss above (for example) lvl 15 while other measures apply under lvl 15 would be better. The cap should be set on a level where it takes some effort to get to.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Deadlock

Options:
1. Xp loss
2. Weapon lockup for a set time
3. Ejected from battle zone for set amount of time
4. You become red flagged after awhile (target for both sides in a battle)
5. Health loss, twice amount as you do to your race mate
6. Rooted, frozen in place for set amount of time
7. Blinded for set amount of time

Many of these solutions would also really damage a person who accidentally kills a teammate while trying to help him. (option 2,3,5,6,7)

Option 4 is a good solution yet I can imagine the community instantly shooting anyone with a red flag to avoid getting shot themselves since there's no way of seeing it was intentional/unintentional

That leaves option 1, XP loss. If you unintentionally kill a teammate you wont be affected by it that much if you just watch your fire, while at the same time ppl who continuousely teamkill will most definately feel the pain

To avoid ppl making a 'teamkillaccount' there's also another option of seperating free-for-all games vs clangames, for example: If XP loss isnt severe enough perhaps a line should be set where as you dont get negative effects while shooting clanmembers and you do when shooting random teammates. (That doesn't make it better for friends who play for different clans tho).

In fact, perhaps Xp loss above (for example) lvl 15 while other measures apply under lvl 15 would be better. The cap should be set on a level where it takes some effort to get to.

Its an MMOFPS not CS they wont have stupid penalties for tk'ing do you always expect not to hit your allies while shooting a big ass tank into a squad of men? throwing grenades? the other player running into your line of fire?

Tking might not ever be aloud we dont know yet, but I'm sure they will come up with somthing to deal with people sitting there hitting your allies over and over.

Then again we would all hope children like that wouldnt learn of this game because they are busy with WoW.

Edit: that xp loss idea to me is just so stupid, not even worth thinking about.

[Blomvik]

I'm for weapon lockup.

Reason: It's fair.

[MasterFlash]

Weapon lock me thinks

[Zulu]

but what about accidental betrayals i think respawn time penalty is a faur way

[Sitaavanu]

I've done several different MMOs for quite some time and i have to say there is absolutly nothing more annoying then someone on your team trying to thelp the enemy. XP loss sounds good on the surface but you run into the problem of people who are going to to quit the game the fact that this game is suppose to be built so that a level 1 charater can take down a level 30 charater. You also run into the intentional/unintentional hit factor. For example if i have a mini gun that has a wide firing radius chances are that someone might get in my way. To avoid certian weapons from being made useless you couldn't use immediate stops like being ejected or weapon locks or rooted. Blind sounds fun but it will only increase the problem as now you have no idea what on earthy you are even trying to hit. So that leaves us with you shoudln't be able to hit your own race, flagged, or health loss. So starting with the first one there is a major issue with this one that most people don't think about. Sometimes due to incharater or out of charater or just a player that wants to be a dick he will run over to your opponents let them kill him and do it consnatly so they rack up points and you can't do anything about it. NEXT flagged being flagged i think is probably the best solution as in your teamates can now kill you and "handle" the situation. This still runs into the situation of when do you become flagged ect. For those purposes i'd have a 2 tier flag setup. First when you attack somoene you get a yellow flag that means whoever you attacked can fight back against you. This avoids you throwing a gernade getting an ally caught in the blast and then your team turning to shoot you. But doesn't allow the level 1 TKaccount guy to run around picking off people without you yourself becoming flagged. Once you KILL a team member that does not have a yellow flag for you (aka someone who did not attack you first) you will become red flagged. When you are red flagged you are open game for anyone and everyone and don't count as Kill Points for either side. This will stop people from getting one of thier own guys to have a red flag and just keeping him at thier base and camping them for easy pts. I might even go as far as to say tat if you become redflagged you would be ejected from the battle and not allowed to reenter for a period of time. Once again you run into that problem of oh i didn't mean to kill him i didn't realize he oonly had 12 armor and 10 life left when i set off the remote i ment to get the guys behind him. If they really wanted to get into the nitty gritty programming part of it they could have a team pop up menu whenever soemoen becomes redflagged if they want to kick him if they choose to kick him someone else in line can take his spot and let you carry on if you don't then the red flag is dropped (signaling that everyone is aware that the death was accidnental). The last option would be health loss the only problem i see with this is that it doens't do anything to actually stop the guy from coming back and doing it again. most accidnetal deaths are going to be the result of missjudgement and blast type damage so the health loss wouldn't be signifcant towards an unintentional kill.

[Leon_the_Great]

This poll assumes Friendly Fire will be on.
All i must say is this senario is: It should have had to have been manually turned on by the player doing it, and they should now be labeled "FF" till they turn it off. this doesnt mean they are condemmed yet.
they are not even red flagged.

=====RED FLAGGING=====

All 4 types must exist:

1) Individual-attuned temp red flag
2) Red-to-all temp red flag
3) Red-to-all mid-term flag
4) long-term TK points, and varying degrees of a kinda 'long-term red-to-all' flag, known as a TKer Label.

1) Now this guy who has turned on his FF, carelessly AoEs you and 3 other team mates some how. His name/char start flashing on and off a light red flash. this means that for just you guys personally (the guys he damaged) you have 1 minute to kill him without being flagged yourself. (if you do kill him, as he was the initial attacker, you will now be both locked into duel-mode with each other, you can kill each other without either being red flagged)

2) Now this guy may have just been unlucky, or felt justified to continue to attack after you returned fire, or perhaps he just set out to kill you from the word go, but: He killed you. He is now going to flash (a slightly less light red) for a good 5 minutes, for all the people he killed. (You can kill him without being red flagged. Anyone who does kill him, however, will be locked into duel-mode with him, and he can then continue killing you without being red flagged anymore, and visa-versa.)
Now putting asside personally-attuned red-flashing and Duel-Mode for a moment: as he, the initiator, actually killed an innocent, without them fighting back, he will recieve a PROPER red flag, for EVERYONE to kill him, but only for 1 minute.
Any uninvolved members of the public who jump in during this time will also be put into duel mode with him, whereby both can kill each other without consequences. (Duel mode lasts 5 minutes, and is renewed back to 5 minutes every time one of you damages the other)

3) This guy is either a massive massive newb, or a plain-out-TKer. Every time he kills someone who hasnt attacked him yet, his Red Flag is raised 1 level. The red becomes darker each time this happens. Each level takes 1 minute to 'cool-down' to the previous level of red flag. Each time this newb kills an innocent, hes going to have to wait another minute for his red-flag-to-ALL to run out. Eventually the colour can reach BLACK. This wont do anything extra in itself, in the short term... but people will see it, know hes a f4g, and take him out with pleasure.
Furthermore, every time he kills the same person, (whether he is dueling them or the TKing is 1 sided) this person gets an additional 5 minutes of Red Flag attuned to them for this guy, in which they have to kill him without going red flag themselves.

(remember, at any time an uninvolved team mate can choose to get revenge for an earlier killing, after a guy has been red-to-all deflagged, by initiating a TK himself. he will just have to accept that he will get 1 minute of red-to-all because of it.)

4) in the long term, people who go into the BLACK flag (i.e. have killed more than 10 innocents in 10 minutes) gain a LongTermTK point each time they do it.
They gain further TK points for each further 10 people they kill, even if they are still in the first lot's BLACK effect. If a guy spends the day TKing, he may rack up 25 or so TK points.
As he gained TK points each day, a TKer label slowely fades into view next to his name. Its their all the time.
(Note: TK points decay at a rate of 1 TK point a day by default. Also 1 TK point decays every 10 times he is killed by someone from his side (whether in a duel, a member of the public jumping in on his red-flag, or someone deciding to straight-out TK him!)
The more TK points a guy has, the more obvious his TKER label is. When someone is labeled a TKER, there is reduced red-flag-to-all time for killing them, (say a modifier of -1% for each TK point) as well as reduced count towards your own "every-10-TKs black-flag" TK point.
Eventually, heavy heavy TKers will effectively red-to-all 100% of the time, when they have 100 TK points. While they wont have red names, their TK labels will be very clear, and for an entire day (assuming they dont increase their TK points) nobody will get red flagged for killing them, until their 100th TK point decays. Even then you will only get 6 seconds of red-flag, for TKing them, and they will only count as a 99th of a person towards your own TK point.
Heavy TKers will be able to kill each other without really increasing any of their own TK points. so they will end up grieving each other, as the only pray it wont cause them grief to TK. the biggest lamers will just lame each other and the good mannered users will lame all of them.
A heavy TKer with 100 TK points, will be condemned till they have been killed 1000 times, or waited 100 days (!) or a comination of both. During which time they should not be TKing anyone themselves. (they can obviously kill those attacking them at will)
Remember, they had to kill 1000 innocents themselves to get a TK rating of 100! Furthermore, as soon as their points are only 99, people will suddenly be alot less inclined to TK them. Remember, the TK points dont cause them to be red flagged. They just lessen the red flag that TKers of THEM recieve. I imagine that as the TK points of someone decends below 90, the inclination of people to TK them will receed rapidly. Someone with less than 75 points will probably not be condemed much at all. (Obviously there will be some of you out there who dedicate themselves to grieving griefers, and that MIGHT make the lesser-condemed lives hell. It might also end up making you guys the "omg hes a TKer, kill him" targets too!)

Its quite simple really:

1) TKing must be punished, but only to a fair extent, and proportionally based on their crimes. A small amount of TK should only been discouraged a small amount. However a big amount of TK should be discouraged alot.

2) There should always be a reason to stop TKing, further punishment. This requires the initial punishment to not be that bad, so that there is always a way back in sight. The punishment must never exceed what is fair.

3) Everyone should feel they can TK a little bit if they really want to. And for those who want to devote themselves to TK, and play the black-flagged role forever:
all the npc's and shops should still be friendly and work with them. they should be able to still advance their characters fully (as long as they always look over their backs, or goto low-populated areas)

It should be noted there should be NO FIGHTING in the npc/shop areas. While players are not forced to, they may also take it upon themselves to not trade/craft with TKers.

[Guyver]

How about a combination. Redflagged, lockup, and rooted.

[Leon_the_Great]

ouch ;/ what if i wanted to demonstrated to some unbelieving noobs that i could get 5 headshots in a row? cant completely rape over my character for it! a noob might manage to kill me or something!!!

[Guyver]

What if they get redflagged rotted and locked BUT you don't get xp for killing him because that would make it too easy. Plus he's standing still so it's not like it won't be hard.

[Zulu]

still think that is too harsh

[vivin]

what about a system where the person who got tk'd gets to choose the penalty. They could forgive, kick,kill,freeze etc... and if it was accidental and they know it, they could just forgive and all be well...

[Ao1xSniperkev]

that wouldnt work out....there arnt many ppl who can take the frustration of tking, and even if it was an accident, first word in their mind is "revenge"