Discodia AR Question

[SOPMOD]

Can the Discodia Assault Rifle really shoot 600 rounds per second or is that just a type mistake. cuz it says it can on its description on this site

[Falcon]

I'm not sure. I would think it was a typing mistake, because that a pretty hard RoF to achieve with conventional style weapons.

[SOPMOD]

thats what i thought, that'd be cool if my M4 could do that

[Kirk]

I bet they meant 600 rounds per minute which isnt hard to beileve mini guns shoot thousands per minute

[Ao1xSniperkev]

you never know...this is the future so technology has advanced tremendously(sp?).

[Archerofgun]

even if they could shoot that fast wtf would the recoil be like, it break your back or something in less than a second

[Falcon]

Plus the friction from that type of RoF would basicly melt your barrel.

[Felix12g]

Doesn't mean that they aren't shooting very very small pellets. Besides if what they said about that scripted ingame sequence, it did look like the rifles has some pretty nasty recoil. Thing is, it's been there so long it'd be changed by now if it was wrong. Also if I remember right I remember KK talking about it it one of the interviews.

[Falcon]

Originally Posted by Felix12g

Doesn't mean that they aren't shooting very very small pellets. Besides if what they said about that scripted ingame sequence, it did look like the rifles has some pretty nasty recoil. Thing is, it's been there so long it'd be changed by now if it was wrong. Also if I remember right I remember KK talking about it it one of the interviews.

Yeah but they dont update their information worth crap.

[Falcon]

Just found something out. A vulcan cannon shoots at 6,000 rounds per minute. While, if the Discodia AR really shoots at 600 rounds per sec, thats 36,000 rounds per minute. Another reason that I really doubt it shoots at 600 rounds/sec.

[Felix12g]

They did say at one point that the high rof rifles and recoil was one way they are trying to teach people trigger control. Or something close to that, basically balancing out a high ROF. A newbie wouldn't be able to take advantage of it, but a skilled player could.

[Savag3Shadow]

Ok, I think it's pretty much impossible for a gun to fire 600 rounds per second. Now, I don't know the actual physics of this, but if a gun were to fire that fast, it would have to be a rotating barrel model, and the discodia or whatever is clearly not. Even if it were, imagine how fast those barrels would have to spin!
If you had a 12 barrel gun, it would have to spin at 3,000 rpm. If you look at the gauge on your car, it goes past that, but that is a car, not a gun that shoots bullets. Also, the rotation would be limited by the amount of time that the bullet takes to get out of the barrel. The gun cannot spin faster than that or the bullet would not come out. Well, it might according to relativity, but it would not have any degree of accuracy. If you were to shorten the barrel to reduce the amount of time the bullet takes to get out of the barrel, therefore allowing for greater rpm and a faster rate of fire, the accuracy would diminish exponentially, and the gun would be useless. Not to mention that the gun would go through ammo like no other. That would be the most expensive gun to fire on earth, much less the development costs. I don't even think that the hammer could go up and down that fast, unless you had a rotating hammer design, though I don't know if that even exists...
Besides, you can't even carry a minigun, that's why they are mounted on helo's.

Anyway, you said you wanted to know if it was possible, I think we have our answer.

Hope I shed new light on this topic and helped you guys out.

[Felix12g]

Yeah, and antigravity is impossible, i guess those hover bikes won't be in the game either.

Remember, Huxley != real life. Thus normal crap doesn't really apply. But thanks for the post.

Granted i'm leery about the 600 rpm myself.

[nubs]

Originally Posted by Savag3Shadow

Besides, you can't even carry a minigun, that's why they are mounted on helo's.

Rubbish!!! have you not see Predator?

[Savag3Shadow]

Well felix, all im sayin is that even for a video game, 600 rounds per second is pushing it.

Also, to continue with the subject of the rifle being limited by the barrel of its gun:

*Note: These numbers are hypothetical just to make the calculations easy to prove my point. Even so, the calculations are still not that easy lol :(

Ok, lets say that the bullets we are using go 180 fps (feet per second), and that our twelve barrelled minigun has a circumference of 3 feet, and that all of the barrelles are 1 inch in diameter.

If the gun were to fire 600 rounds per second, the gun would have to fire 600/12 revolutions per second (one revolution is 12 bullets fired-one for each barrel), which is 50 revolutions per second. 50 revolutions per second is 3000 rpm. Now for the new stuff. If the circumference of the "cannon" (like vulcan cannon, a minigun in real life, mentioned earlier I think) is 3 feet, then a single barrel would have to travel 3 feet x 50 revolutions per second, which is 150 feet per second in order to fire all the bullets necessary. This means that one revolution occors every .0003 of a second, therefore the barrells travel at the rate of 36 inches every .0003 seconds. Also, the barrel can only be in the position directly centered on the bullets point of fire for 1 out of every 36 positions (if the barrel is one inch in diameter and the circumference of the weapon is 36 inches in diameter). The amount of time it spends in this one out of every 36 positions is critical to the maximum accurate RoF.

If we divide one revolution of .0003 seconds into 36 parts, we will get the amount of time one barrel spends in the position necessary to fire a bullet.
So, .0003 x 1/36= .00000834 seconds.

All this means that the barrel length is limited by the length a bullet can travel in .00000834 seconds. If we take a bullet from my earlier hypothetical that goes 180 fps (slow, I know, but this is a hypothetical), we would simply multiply 180 by .00000834 seconds and we would get the maximum length of the barrells. 180 x .00000834 is .0015012 feet, which is .018 inches. As you can see, having a barrel length of .018 inches and maintaining any sort of accuracy is impossible.

Now, if we took a more realistic example and used a bullet that traveled at 3,450 fps (this is the muzzle velocity of a bullet from a vulcan cannon), and multiplied that by .00000834, we would get .00000834 x 3,450= .02878 feet, or .35 inches. As you can see, even in a realistic model, maintaining any kind of accuracy is useless, because the accuracy of the weapon depends largely upon a rifled barrel, and achieving any kind of rifling in a .35 inch barrel is useless.

Now, I can get into what would happen if the bullet only traveled one foot when it was supposed to travel two, but that would be getting into the theory of relativity and the train car thought experiment and we don't even have a bullet that will travel one foot in the required time to begin with!

[Felix12g]

I'm curious. What does revolutions have to do with the Diverian?

Second.

Why would a gatling gun have a 3 foot circumfrence? Or even 12 barrels for that matter? Are you going to mount this on a battleship?

Also a 5.56 round travels over 2000 fps easily, not 180 fps.

Now 3000 rpm isn't all that fast. Take modern miniguns that shoot 4-12k rpm. For instance a XM214 that's .69meters long that shoots up to 10k rpm.

Lets get back to the hypothetical again.

The Diverian's striking power is enhanced by charging its round's gunpowder with a Lunarite core

Now, i'm guessing a bullet like this is going to go pretty fast.

Compare that with your "Bullet" that flies slower than something from a slingshot.

Oh and a barrel that's half the length of the actual bullet?


========

Basically what it boils down to is all your numbers suck. Really. It's a harsh truth but everything you posted might work out with those nubmers, but they're so far off anything even remotely relevant that the entire thing is useless.
If you want to try proving a point do so, don't make up random *Censored Word**Censored Word**Censored Word**Censored Word*. Otherwise it's the same as pointing up at the moon and saying, "Well if my arm was really long and I could reach up there and grab a handful of it, it would be cheese because I could eat it and it would taste good"

Originally Posted by Savag3Shadow

Now, I can get into what would happen if the bullet only traveled one foot when it was supposed to travel two, but that would be getting into the theory of relativity and the train car thought experiment and we don't even have a bullet that will travel one foot in the required time to begin with!

This scares me.


One more thing before I finish this up.


It seems to me like there's 1 barrel, and the gun doesn't have a, lets see.

(if the barrel is one inch in diameter and the circumference of the weapon is 36 inches in diameter).

Seriously, check into this even a little bit before you post please. When you're talking about a rifle, don't give stats on a gatling gun. The mechanisms for both are nothing alike.


As for the Diverian, it looks like it's a bullpup design with a massive clip in the back containing very small projectiles, which lends weight to the information that it isn't good against armored targets.

[Savag3Shadow]

Ok, I respect the fact that you went through all of that to respond, and I wish that other people would do the same...

BUT, if you would read my entire post before responding, many of your problems with my post would be resolved.

The very first thing I said in my very first post here was that it is impossible for a bullpup design to fire that fast. I said if anything were to fire that fast, it would have to be a gatling gun. Now, I don't know where you got your statistics from when you said 10k rpm, but if you could provide a link I would appreciate it. Besides, rpm has little to do with the actual point I made, if you would have paid any attention to my post.

If you look at a picture of a vulcan cannon (one of the fastest shooting gatling guns the military has), it has 8 barrells and has about a 2 foot circumference. For my purposes, to try and give a gatling gun a little bit more of a chance to reach 600 rounds per second, I gave it 12 barrells and a 3 foot circumference, which is proportional to the vulcan cannon.

About the 180 fps, I later changed that to 3140 (or around that) fps to more accurately reflect a real world weapon, more specifically the vulcan cannon.

To address your "lunarite core" point: You criticize me for not being realistic enough and then you say the bullet will go faster because of a Lunarite Core? Come on.

Anyway, the Lunarite Core has to do with the speed of the bullet, not the speed of the gatling gun.

I never actually proposed a barrell that is half the length of the actual bullet, I simply stated that that would be what the limit of the barrell according to the equations. By the way my equations are all correct. If you think they are flawed, then please state why.

All in all, if you would have read my post fully and taken it in the correct context, all of your criticisms are rendered null and void. Especially the 180 fps part you mentioned. Later on in my post you can clearly see that I also included a more realistic muzzle velocity.

To address the comment you made that what I said "scares you":
If the bullet did not have sufficient velocity to escape the barrel, it would simply add the vectors of the barrels velocity to its own (according to Einstien's railcar thought experiment, which can be found in Relativity for the Million), and not only have an escape point at a different point on the cirlce formed by the rotating barrel, but also, when escaping from the barrel, posses a circular motion, which, when factored in with air resistance, would make for a very inaccurate weapon.

For my final comment, I am frankly insulted that you would degrade and even go so far as to insult me over my flawless mathematical model I have presented that disproves the possibility of a 600 round per second gun. I don't know what I have done to you that would make you want to flame and insult my ideas and my intellectual ability, but I assure you any comment I might have made to offend you was completely unintentional, and I apologize for any such comment that might have offended you. I hope that we can go on from this point foward with a more civilized dialogue exchange, and I hope you feel the same.

Sincerely,
-Savag3

Edit-One thing I forgot to mention is that obvioulsy this was a typo, but I was interested in finding out if it were possible for a gun to fire 600 rounds per second. I thought that people posting in this thread would be interested in finding out if such a thing were a possibility, but I certainly did not anticipate someone flaming me for doing so.