The Big Question: PvP?

[narkolepzy]

The webzen site has alot of grey areas about this. They talk about large scale battles then immediatly jump to how advanced the AI is. So are they referring to only AI battles or PvP battles as well? I see no concevable way of making an mmofps without some form of PvP and I really hope they don't take a PvE exclusive route. Can anyone confirm that there will be PvP? (and if so I hope to God it's not just instanced PvP)

[mitch455]

gamespy did an interview where it seem slike both are gona have to go in together

yes there will be PvE where you go off and kill hybrids and the hybrid protection organization or w/e and you gain levels

levels don't make you stronger, they just enable it so you can get better equipment and skills like double jump and stuff

the problem is there is a level cap that you can only go up so many levels without doing any PvP

and PvP is going to have different styles like gaininng territory or team killcount

the game will run like unreal tournament or quake 4 or doom or whichever you choose except the battles are aimed to reach a scale of 100 versus 100 people wars which will most likely be clan wars cause i couldn't imagine 200 random people running into a battle for no reason lol

[nubs]

Originally Posted by narkolepzy

The webzen site has alot of grey areas about this. They talk about large scale battles then immediatly jump to how advanced the AI is. So are they referring to only AI battles or PvP battles as well? I see no concevable way of making an mmofps without some form of PvP and I really hope they don't take a PvE exclusive route. Can anyone confirm that there will be PvP? (and if so I hope to God it's not just instanced PvP)

Errr.... the game is primarily PVP, its always touted itself as being primarily PVP, the PVE stuff is in there to cover all aspects of the FPS genre and to add content and ways for players to practice and gain the money and experience they need to improve in PVP. PVE is a nice addition but the ofcus was always PVP.


As to wether 100-200 randoms would join a battle if it wasnt a clan match.. clearly they would, go play planetside (its free) and you will see that size of battle full of randoms all the time.

[Naplam]

I haven't read much on it, but I hope it's nothing like PlanetSide. That game was horrendous, especially when you're just starting out and trying to put 102931591221 bullets into a guy, yet he only turns around and pops you once.
Since it is using the Unreal engine, I bet it's going to rock.

[Felix12g]

We know there's going to be instanced battlegrounds (The islands) that you take a tram out to to fight on. But it sounds like the PvE areas will have PvP elements in them as well that you can disrupt the other faction.

It is unclear however how the squad system is going to work. If you just start up zerg platoons like PS or if it's restricted to small squads that work together and their outfit ties their accomplishments together.

[Mantis]

I hate it when people post "x game is horrendous" because of ABC when it is painfully obvious they have never played the game or know what the hell theyre talking about. For one thing it is IMPOSSIBLE as an infantry man to "turn around and kill you in one shot." There are no one-shot infantry shot weapons. Even a sniper rifle is 2 shots at minimum on a fully heled guy. The only possible "1 shot" thing an infantry can carry is a "boomer" which is a mine that you would have to stand on or near. You should actually play planetside before badmouthing it. And I have bad news for you, Huxley WILL be similar to planetside in alot of ways. It wil be PVP and will be skill based. If you are getting PWNT in planetside, you will get pwnt in Huxley. So either keep whining and crying or go practice. Planetside is one of two MMOFPS games and the most similar to huxley, so if you want to be good at huxley you should start with planetside. Bottom line: If you get owned in planetside you will get owned in huxley. This is going to be a MMOFPS, not a singleplayer. Prepare to die.

[Felix12g]

Actually a triple shot burst from the Jackhammer takes you out in 1 shot. You come up behind a jackhammer and empty a clip of suppressor (An example), he turns and pastes you in the face in one shot. It happens. As a reason for a game being horrendous that one is actually a pretty good one. I posted somewhere else a few reasons why PS is a bad FPS, but not a bad game in and of itself.

As for "You get owned in PS, you'll get owned in Huxley" is pretty much false. The gameplay is so dissimilar on the FPS level that somebody with good twitch skills can still get "owned" in PS but turn around in Huxley and dominate. Just because a person is starting out and isnt used to the fps system that PS has doesn't make them bad at FPS. For instance somebody used to recoil and high damage weapons would be thrown off in PS by the simple innacuracy instead of recoil that PS has.

[nubs]

Maybe in the beginning at launch the jackhammer would do that in that situation but not now...

FIrstly if anyone gets the jump on another player with any gun, they are already likely to win, if the other player beats them.. well fair play to them.

Secondly it takes 2 seconds to switch the jackhammer into triple shot mode, then you have to be absolutely accurate and at pointblank range for the triple shot to kill a full health heavy armour (standard armour basically) grunt, if you miss its another 2 seconds before you can fire again.

It takes about 10 shots from any assault rifle to kill in close - medium range, more at longer but with a clip of 30 rounds, much faster fire rate, faster reload, faster to draw it out of the holster etc.. if someone says "i got the jump on some guy, fired lots of bullets at him, and he still turned around and killed me" that would suggest to me that he was not the greatest FPS player in the world. If the shots hit then what probably happened was a bout of lag, wich does happen very very rarely in planetside where you get a bit of lag but dont realise it because you carry on firing and moving as normal, in some cases people are still moving and firing around you as well (when your upstream lags for example), you go and shoot some guy lots, but due to the error the server dosnt know, then it receives all the data at once but too late for it to make any "sense" to the server. Or you were shooting at a MAX suit (super heavy infantry armour that you can only use once every 5 minutes and has no equipment slots, just a suit specific gun and special function). Although even then its a minimum of 3 shots from the "heavy hitting slow firing" one to kill a grunt... Or you were still in your n00b gear, hadn't bothered to read the manual and were running around with no armour and the weakest gun, in wich case most guns would kill you very very fast.

You have to remember that at the time planetside came out the average FPS game was maximum of 16 players (there were more in some game types but they were not very popular as servers and net connections would struggle). So planetside had to "cheat" to get around that problem and offer battles that were 35 times bigger than anything else. They added very heavy movement prediction to allow for bouts of minor lag and to reduce the overall bandwith burden and client side hit detection so that hits were determined on your pc rather than on the server, again reducing the burden. These wern't ideal but they worked and still do work suprisingly well, even if they do have their flaws. Many of these stories of unfairness are likely down to quirks of the engine, and are pretty rare now, although at launch there were some more severe problems because they set no population cap on each continent. That lead to what was probably more than 1000 people on a map, far more than intended, wich is why they brought in the 600 player population cap per game zone.


That said, planetside is the closest thing you will find to Huxley, basically think Planetside crossed with UT2004 and AVP.

[Felix12g]

A jackhammer won't 1 shot anymore? Or is that just against rexo or maxes? But I do get what you're saying, however even today I know br25's that don't like rexo and still run around in agi, let alone a new player.

[Mantis]

Well, if you let someone run up behind you and triple shot you in agi on a regular basis, youre a moron. There will be the same issues in Huxley. If you cant do well at planetside, I wouldn't expect to do well at huxley. The skillset will be very similar... Teamwork / Outfit / Squad work, Communication, Situational awareness, Aim, Appropriate gear for the appropriate situations, Knowing when to run / take cover/ hide, Knowing when do go all out gunz blazing, Knowing the terrain etc.. If your complaint about planetside is that you die before you get a chance to kill others, then chances are its because you fail at one, several or all of these things. Don't blame it on the game, though, And don't think it will be much different in huxley. These are HUMANS you will be fighting, not stupid bots.

[nubs]

Originally Posted by Felix12g

A jackhammer won't 1 shot anymore? Or is that just against rexo or maxes? But I do get what you're saying, however even today I know br25's that don't like rexo and still run around in agi, let alone a new player.

It does 1 shot but you have to be absolutely spot on with the shots, the cone of fire on the triple is huge so unless you catch someone and hold them perfectly on your crosshair at pointblank it will do heavy damage but not kill them, pretty much all the pellets from all the shots have to hit to kill a rexo.

The big problem with the jackhammer was the quad shot, where switching between shot types was instant, so you could triple shot and then imediately switch to single and fire again. So they added the delay when switching shot types... their reasoning was that it had to wait for all 3 barrels to load, however as usual for SOE they "over nerfed" it, so that even when you hadnt fired at all, switching still took 2 seconds, despite that the gun would still have all barrels loaded and that they only introduced the delay to stop quad shots, they then also took away the versatility of the triple shot by forcing the delay even when quadshot wasnt an option.


This is the kind of thing that I'm hoping Webzen will do better, SOE always used a big nerf/buff stick and seemed incapable of just changing minor things or making small changes.

[naggs]

planetside sucks for many reasons. too many to list here. basically its not fun.

[Udonis]

Originally Posted by nubs

It does 1 shot but you have to be absolutely spot on with the shots, the cone of fire on the triple is huge so unless you catch someone and hold them perfectly on your crosshair at pointblank it will do heavy damage but not kill them, pretty much all the pellets from all the shots have to hit to kill a rexo.

The big problem with the jackhammer was the quad shot, where switching between shot types was instant, so you could triple shot and then imediately switch to single and fire again. So they added the delay when switching shot types... their reasoning was that it had to wait for all 3 barrels to load, however as usual for SOE they "over nerfed" it, so that even when you hadnt fired at all, switching still took 2 seconds, despite that the gun would still have all barrels loaded and that they only introduced the delay to stop quad shots, they then also took away the versatility of the triple shot by forcing the delay even when quadshot wasnt an option.


This is the kind of thing that I'm hoping Webzen will do better, SOE always used a big nerf/buff stick and seemed incapable of just changing minor things or making small changes.

dont know how we got ont this PS subject from PVP but yes you are exactly right about that i pray to Allah(j/k) that he will not only bring good devs to huxley but also bring me 3 cows and a man named abu to marry my daughter sheimiel.....(LOL this was a joke do not mean to offfend anyone)

[P14]

The jack hammer, heavy assault was about stupid compared to an MCG. That was the problem. You could hit a jh with a plasma nade, hit every shot with an MCG, also supposedly heavy assault, and still end up dead. God help the poor *idiot*s still using medium assault, except for a suppressor which was less crappy. You had a gun that was easier to hit with that killed faster against a gun that has range you don't need on a spec that is designed for indoors actions. Yeah he could one shot you, like its hard to triple noob with plasma flying everywhere or the 1.5 seconds you have to strafe out from your corner, never fixed and stick said skill stick right in someones nose before you even register on their screen. 2 shots at .5 seconds against agile can feel pretty instant could be his misunderstanding as well. I'm still pretty sure TR was supposed to suck so battles wouldn't be too even and end in stalemate. Typical Sony retardation along with the other bugs. Planetside was great in concept and fun factor, but balance and dev support was terrible.

[Rerg]

Will this be stragety combat?

Or more fast paced, dodging and shizzle.

[naggs]

like quake or UT type games, all fast and shizzul

[zeekgenateer]

There will be strategy involved if you incorporate it. There's strategy in all games, be it WoW or CoD. If you come up with a strategy, even if you don't realize it, it's strategy, maybe not as much as C&C or Supreme Commander, but it's there.

[Grind]

Hopefully they'll have some support roles and stuff so people can be a little more strategic if they choose. Nothing huge or whatever but there will be so many classes I can't imagine there won't be some sort of support things that add to whatever strategy you want to use.

And if you really want strategy one the massive 100 vs 100 battles, just join a clan and group up with them all the time. Working together in huge groups is going to be awesome in this game. Making super sweet plans and then attacking and all that fun stuff. good times :D