Playing Huxley Without Combat

[Mantis]

Crafting is a bad idea. Why? Because this is a FPS.

Having crafting would imply a lot of things that would make an FPS suck.

Number one, it would imply that you needed something that had to be crafted. (Without a NEED for crafted items , crafting is pointless)
This means that you either have to 1) spend time crafting or 2) Spend time finding someone to craft stuff for you or 3) Spend time and money trading for crafted items.

NO THANKS

Number two it would mean that there would be superior / rare items that would make "uber items" more valuable than skill.

NO THANKS

The "support" type skills should not be crafting but should be things like field medic, field repairs, communications etc... Things that actually matter on the battlefield.

[Apoxide]

Resource farming is not fun. People don't play games to pick shit off the ground.

I do agree with non-combatant jobs though, but they would be limited to the following:

Scouts
Commanders
Transporters.

Now, I'm not saying that the above people couldn't get there hands dirty, but they do have some jobs that don't involve killing. Commanders are neccecary for planning rape.

Just look and Planetsides commanders, thats what I'm talking about. Planetside is a good role-model for this game, even if it is a bit Rainbow 6ish.

[LimpJedi]

Originally Posted by Udonis

this is a forum people can voice there opinions kinda like in america.....

im guessing your from like soviet russia or something???

damn straight negro joe

[vernes]

Originally Posted by Mantis

Crafting is a bad idea. Why? Because this is a FPS.

Having crafting would imply a lot of things that would make an FPS suck.

Number one, it would imply that you needed something that had to be crafted. (Without a NEED for crafted items , crafting is pointless)
This means that you either have to 1) spend time crafting or 2) Spend time finding someone to craft stuff for you or 3) Spend time and money trading for crafted items.

1) yes, 'I' will spend time crafting, and I'll enjoy it, what does that have to do with you? go kill some mutants. 2) don't have to. If you want, I'll stay in the guildhall or something, surrounded by piles of junk,parts,modules and scavaged items and in the corner weapons and items ready for use. 3) There WILL be NPC-shops so you'll be spending time and mony on items anyway, crafted or not makes no difference.

Originally Posted by Mantis

Number two it would mean that there would be superior / rare items that would make "uber items" more valuable than skill.

no it doesn't.

Originally Posted by Mantis

The "support" type skills should not be crafting but should be things like field medic, field repairs, communications etc... Things that actually matter on the battlefield.

I agree on those roles, I just want to expand the role with the creation of items. I don't care if they are just standard items.

What if stuff wore down to the point of breakage? or parts of an item broke? it's a standard weapon, expensive and you just broke its 'wiggemejig'. I'd like to see 'wiggemejigs' for sale in the npc-shop... or in the trunk of a grouped engineer ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
It's like repairing a mech in PlanetSide while bullets fly around. And also like jacking an enemy vehicle, except you steal part of it, and the vehicle is blown up.

Originally Posted by Apoxide

Resource farming is not fun. People don't play games to pick shit off the ground.

Actually, I played 'a tale in the desert' and found it to be quite fun. go figure.
That's my only reply for you cause all your other statements hold ground. I agree with em although it hasn't changed my mind. It HAS given me better understanding on why crafting is considered bad for the game. This allows me to change my own wishes ( weather or not they come true ) so that it fits the gameplay you have in mind.

So drop the whole uber craftable-weapon / modification argument, crafting for repair and mobile service SEEMS more compatible with current view of the game.

I see the role of the crafter as that of a PlanetSide Combat Engineer. creating/placing mines, turrets, sensors, repairing turrets, and driving long distances in an 'ant' to keep the base powered. Only, instead of pulling this stuff (and more) from a console, I suggest creating it himself. In PlanetSide, you often find destroyed vehicles. What if you could salvage parts of it to repair broken parts of your own team's tank? Keep resource consumption low on your own side to 'finance' the battle longer then the enemy can. While they have to send someone to get the stuff from some terminal, you can stay put because you're using a crank-shaft someone ripped from an enemy tank.

(typed on a tiny pda)

[cragg]

vernes:

I see the role of the crafter as that of a PlanetSide Combat Engineer.
creating/placing mines, turrets, sensors, repairing turrets, and
driving long distances in an 'ant' to keep the base powered. Only,
instead of pulling this stuff (and more) from a console, I suggest
creating it himself. In PlanetSide, you often find destroyed vehicles.
What if you could salvage parts of it to repair broken parts of your
own team's tank? Keep resource consumption low on your own side to
'finance' the battle longer then the enemy can. While they have to send
someone to get the stuff from some terminal, you can stay put because
you're using a crank-shaft someone ripped from an enemy tank.

yeah now this was more like what I was thinking of. Not 'picking **** of the floor', but salvaging stuff.

Also a feature I would like to see in this game, dunno how
possible it would be though, would be a huge area i mean massive like
20-30km space of desert type terrain, and rather than finding minerals
or metal in the ground, finding bits of old vehicles or the occasional
bit of 'semi-uber equipment, (the loot doesnt have to be amazing but could have a slight advantage over npc sold equipment), and of course a healthy spattering of
npc's to kill and loot, maybe some old buildings with the odd
underground complex. Just somewhere you and your buddies can go for a
less intense fps experience. And of course bumping into the enemy.

This could all lead to (yep i'm gonna say it) player
organised races for cash prizes. Or just general player organised stuff. mad max??

Ok nobody bite my head off for saying this please, ITS JUST AN IDEA ffs

[Archerofgun]

Small "squad on squad" sorts of fighting sounds fun, but maybe the "little better gun" could be only used in that desert mobober area, or for show in the town/city

[Daedelus]

Great posts from #24 and #25. iam trying to think of something good to stay and stay constructive to the thread. so maybe something like the listed posters ideas. on a large battlefield there maybe be hulf of destroyed vehicles or tank etc. ( and i had ideas in other another thread about having vehicles with player picked hard points on a tank/apc etc.) thant way you could say take off a turret or smoke launcher etc off a destroyed abandonded vehicle and use it on a new friendly vehicle.

But as far as having a crafting profession in huxley i dont think it would be a good idea.To me it sound like trying to add crafting to battle field2 it just dosnt fit into a first person shooter- massive multiplayer game. after all this is not suppossed to be a RPG. and from playing multiple other MMO games. i beleive the benefits made by giving another play stlye to people ie letting them craft and grind. would cause more problems than it would be a benefit. how many complaints do we here about farmers and such selling there trade online etc.
I use planetside as perfect example how a game can have weapons and not have the need for uber buffs/crafted weapons/extra stuff and still have a good fun playing game.

Please do not take my post as a flame of any type. it just hard to get my point accross if the person with the opposite oppinion is allowing no compramise.

[Felix12g]

Originally Posted by vernes

Your opinion is supported by a statement you yourself make. It's like lifting yourself by pulling your own collar upwards.
Because you say people won't buy crafted items, you can state that craftable items are useless.
The statement that craftable items are useless only holds any value as long as your first statement is true. But that first statement is not fact, but actually also an opinion, which you present as if it was a fact.
example: You ARE a poopyhead, because of this fact I believe I am better then you.
I presented my opinion that you are a poopyhead as a fact, on this I build the rest of my statement.

You say "let's" but you clearly stated that you won't be playing crafter, so why do you speak of a 'us'? (let's = let us). That's the beauty of classes, you can CHOOSE what to play while at the same time all players have an EQUAL amount of chances.
Again, you seem to base all disaproval on the opinion that crafters will either be useless, or overpowered.
It is my opinion that crafters will have a supportive role towards fighters.

Oh, this is a good one, this statement can be used for both sides of the argument.
Do you mean hard work by the crafters?
Or do mean hard work for the fighters?
On a different note, do you state that the items will be and should be EASY to create?
Or do you state that hard work by crafters are of a lesser and inferior kind?
2 hours of crafting or 2 hours of 'grinding' doesn't compare?
I'd like your feedback on this.

*Edited to tone down reply*

First, your first point about the error of people buying. In some of the biggest MMO's recently, those still active especially (Ryzom is the only one I think of where this isn't the case) The weapons and armor markets were not how you made money. It has always been consumables and other odds and ends. For different reasons.

First, crafters have to buy/farm the materials. They want to be paid accordingly. If a person can kill monsters and earn money that way, they usually compare it with how much a person like that can make then take into account the material costs + their time = not good prices vs drops.

Second, Drops themselves and mission rewards are generally better quality items or "Rares" that have better stats and performance. Being able to create weapons constantly that are better than these kills the whole purpose of missions, thus devs rarely do this, and in the case of Huxley where they're trying to design a skill based system instead of a gear based one this would ruin their whole ideal.
Now, this isn't taking into account the super end game craftable 1/1000 drop recipe shit you find in RPGs, I'm talking about what you actually make most of the time. And as for that super shit, it doesn't belong.

Third, Multiple crafters. When people get their armor sets, for the most part, they look ahead and buy weapons and armor in bursts, meaning they upgrade every few levels instead of whenever they see something a little bit better. This cuts down on the amount of steady income crafters make off of armor. This takes into account consumables being a better market since people always need to restock. You don't have to do that normally with armor and weapons. Now when you let anybody and everybody make a character to craft, the market is flooded, nobody buys it all up and it's wasted space, resources and time.

Fourth, The devs have already said you'll practically be swimming in the amount of weapons you can pick up. Just adding more into the mix probably isn't going to help much.

===========
Second part, unless you think that all of the Non-combat "Crafters" will be walking around in the middle of a warzone farming resources while being shot at and getting enough of them to churn out armor for the masses, that means that people actually fighting, IE "Us," the main body of players actually playing the game, not a crafting sim, then "we" need to be picking up resources as well.

As for useless or overpowered. I'm leaning toward useless here.

===========
Third part, I'm talking about the developers. Creating a balanced weapon/armor/vehicle environment is a bitch of a job. Having a 25 round magazine to balance out it's power is suddenly fucked up when you can double the clip size by modding the gun. There's so many ways to "customize" weapons that there'd be ways to get around every shortcoming the devs try to build into them for balance. This is assuming of course that they actually do a competent job of letting you customize.

Another point... with 5000 players per server and up to 400 players per match, id rather have all 5000 as combat characters, i wouldnt be too happy if on the server i chose it later turned out there were tons of non participant characters.

That about sums it up right there.

[Arrows]

I like the idea of gun running. I think it would go something like this:

Theres a fight, proboly one where the positions of both sides are changing little and there is alot of supressive fire going on to keep each side from advancing and getting out of cover. Guns evetualy run out of ammo and the situation changes meaning people may need different gear. This is where the gun runner comes into play. The gun runner(s) will transport arms ammo, and maybe even vehicles or stationairy MG turrets or AA turrets to the battlefield with aircraft or a ground transport. The gun runners could also possibly steal weapons/vehicles from an enemy armory and sell them to your own side, these exotic and unusual items would proboly generate a good amount of money.

Gun running could work several ways, the vehicle carrying the merchandise could work as a store npc, someone walks up and buys what they want for a price determind by the seller, this would be most feasible with ammo. The seller would have to pay for all of the merchandise, regardless if it sells or not. The seller also risks having the shipment destroyed in combat.

Gun running could be done out of charity and to help the fight, if this were the case the weapons ammo etc. would be supplied to the gun runners for free, but the people could get the stuff from the gun runner for free and could not be charged.

Gun running could be done on missions, possibly set up by the games version of the CR5 from PS. There would be an XP and monitary reward. The items obtained from the gun runners would also be free for players.

To me gun running is more of a support role than money making..

[BoneSaw]

comabt will be unavoidable. there probaly wont be seperate professions either. however myself persoanly i prefer to fly. so i might choose to just stay in the air and call myself a pilot. cause when those mutant things come in and zerg i will be the one you call for evac. the only pilot you can trust is yourself.

[Naughty]

This is a good idea, but like said above there will be resource farmers. Just find your resources, farm them, and have a group of ten people protect you while you do it. I can imagine it now...

"Dude protect me I have to get these resources!"
"Alright Man, hey you BACK THE FUCK UP YOU WANNA DIE THESE ARE OURS!"
"*Cowards* Im sorry I'll go"
"Umm bro a group of like twenty people are coming I think you need to hurry up so we can leave...oh my god they be shooting RUN!"

So yea it there won't be combat over resources to a certain extent...

[BoneSaw]

anyone ever played any of the mechwarrior games? you fought, you killed you salvaged, you upgraded. the fore you fought the better gear you could bring in. ofcourse if you shoot the wrong spot on the mech you could destroy some valuble armor or weapons that you could otherwise loot. something like that in Huxley would rock

[ArmorKing]

From what has been released soo far, there is probably going to be some sort of money system to buy items you may need including vehicles, so savaging could put and interesting spin on the game.

[KingGryphon]

I like the idea of Salvaging, but there are some big questions that go along with it. First, would you be salvaging individual pieces, i.e. engine, wheel, axel, gears, seat, windo, armor plating, turret, sensors, , radar, etc. Now this could be really cool, because it could potentially lead to the creation of a custom vehicle of pretty much your own design. Everbody loves a little moped with tank armor on it. These wouldn't necessarily be uber vehicles, just vehicles with more weapon or armor (which would decrease speed), better engines, axels, wheels or treads (increasing speed), and the like. However, the problem is when scavenging, do things miracously appear in your inventory, or do the weigh you down, or must you pull them along or do you just load them up on a sled or something, which zooms you and your scrap metal back to your base?
The second possibility would be to scavenge a generic, all-purpose material, i.e. "scrap" or "parts" or "gears", which you would pick up from anything, you'd get more from a tank than a gun for example. These things could then be crafted into whatever you want and would not have to be lugged around, but easily carried and stored. However, you loose the uniqueness of items and creating your own things, unless you created various parts from these pieces, then put them together to form your custom vehicle. Personally, the first way seems a lot more interesting and fun.
Either way, it would require some type of workshop, which is where a guild would come in handy, to create these items. Maybe you would only need a workbench to create armor and weapons (think KotoR and KotoR II) and a garage to make the big things, which would also be helpful in repairing vehicles. You could also throw in the need for certain tools/lifts to be able to create these things and pu them together. Now you could sell these costum items to other people possibly or hand them out to your guildmates. Also a vehicle could be customed designed or tweaked for a mission or while on the battlefield. Can't get troops past their line of defense? Create a small quick APC or just take off the weapons from one of the APCs on the field to quicken it up. Enemy tanks hasseling your troops? Paste some armor and massive turrets onto your vehicles and blast them away. Sure these is a little far-fetched, but it would be extremely fun and really add to the game.

[Felix12g]

I doubt that you'll be carrying around massive cannons off of a vehicle and hauling them on your back to the cities for resale. It does look like you loot the weapons off the bodies of the dead, possibly just their currently equipped weapon like has been done in all the UT games before this.
They have said that there won't be a lack of weapons you can pick up.

As for buying things, weapons, armor, vehicles, NPC mercs and 1 time use items like sensors etc.

[vernes]

Originally Posted by Felix12g

I doubt that you'll be carrying around massive cannons off of a vehicle and hauling them on your back to the cities for resale.

perhaps a specialized vehicle then? Like the Lodestar but quite different.

The mobile garage, able to raise any vehicle and lock em in position for any maintanance. this goes for broken enemy vehicles as well friendly vehicles.
Quite fast but very low armor.
Able to extract or install any module or part with optimum speed.

During it's 'operation mode', a low-level forcefield is erected to supply additional protection.

There, now we can tear those cannons off enemy vehicles.
Add some inventory space in that thing and we can also resupply ammo to vehicles.