Increase the skill margin

[Soleft]

Having a high skill margin in a multiplayer game is important. By doing this it gives games long playability. Games such as UT, CSS have large skill margins this is why they have lasted for so long. There are such things as one man armies. Is this a bad thing? I think not. If the person has enough skill to take out a 10 man team, why not. When you look at Xfire stats you see 6 FPS games in the top10, number 2 in the top 10 at the moment being CSS.

Factors that increase skill margin:

*Multiple hit boxes, this increases skill margin because you have to aim for a specific point.

*Recoil, this increases skill margin because you have to control recoil you can not mindlessly shoot at someone.

*Players can be killed in as little as 2-3 shots, make players easy to kill, this gives higher skilled players an advantage.

*Give players the ability to move fast, this makes targets harder to hit.

*Give players accurate weapons, which in result is effected by recoil.

So what's my point? This game has the potential to be the best. I want your input. I think I will get two sides of this. MMORPG players telling me to shutup, and maybe FPS agreeing with me.

[ArmorKing]

I have read some stuff on their being points on the body in huxley more vital to hit them others, and i am a mmorpg fan but i have to agree with you... Skill based games do potentially last longer then others... planetside i thought was one of the Best FPS of its time... but it went from being skilled based, to who can use the biggest explosives and kamakazi their vehicles the most... vehicles became the game and it ruined it... Huxley from the facts given will fix this issue and have skills be the decider in battle.... so i guess the point is.... HURRY UP HUXLEY!!!

[Backus]

I am a from MMORPG player myself, but i agree wholeheartedly with most of what you said so far.

the only complaint I have is with the one man killing 10 others. I would agree if it was 1 man killing 10 noobs that could communicate and etc, but if it was 10 clansmen who were just killed by a sniper then I couldn't agree with you.

I also think different types of armor should have different affects on speed. Let's say you max out on heavy armor then you should be a lot slower then a light armored person. But here's where the difference comes in. The light armored person can only take 3-5 shots where as the heavy armored person can take 7-8 hits in the same non vital areas.

I also think teamwork and strategy should be rewarded, instead of the lone heroes.

[ArmorKing]

I like the Thoughts on that Backus, i Do think a slower pace with heavy armor is effective... In a skill based game, Even the smallest of details can change how challenging i can be to play... and with armor based speeds, people will have to think about how they want to find, Tank it, or Hit and run, either way its fun!

[connnnn]

Personally I think things like recoil make aiming too reliant on luck. Sure you can learn how to aim to give yourself the highest percentage of hitting, but it's still a roll of the dice at the end of the day. I'd much prefer to have the weapon shoot wherever I'm pointing the crosshair. This only works if the game is balanced around that kind of style though. A game like BF2 would be entirely too easy to get kill in without recoil and bloom, but a game like this will likely play much different. With the developers mentioning fast gameplay influenced by UT/Quake, I just can't see things like recoil working well.

[Soleft]

Originally Posted by connnnn

Personally I think things like recoil make aiming too reliant on luck.

plz don't say that :/

It wouldn't be based on luck if the guns themselves were accurate. I'm a CSS player. There are guns in that which are very accurate but have high recoil the 3rd shot in a burst is usually way off. If we did it your way, where the gun shoots where you are aiming it would be a real roll of the dice. When guns don't have recoil in a game they make them unacurate, so it's a real gamble where the bullets are going to go. With recoil you improve on skill, no gambling. I think you got the two mixed up. I'm not too worreid about either style, I'm just saying you're mistaken. And yes I'm a proud CSS player.

[connnnn]

Well when I was referring to gameplay differences, CS is a very different game than the types of shooters that the developers are always referencing with Huxley. You're talking about the same bullet recoil but the crosshair simply not reflecting it. I think the crosshair SHOULD show where the bullets are going, but for a fast-paced game I think it's better to concede a little inaccuracy for certain weapons (i.e. minigun in UT, which fires in a quasi-accurate area around the center of the crosshair regardless of how long it's firing or how you are moving) in order to allow others to be usable.

I'm not talking about deagles and mp5's here, I'm thinking more along the lines of over the top weapons. If you can imagine UT with recoil, it would be unplayable. It all just depends on gameplay, and most of it revolves around movement. The faster the movement, the less recoil (and especially variable cones of fire) work.

Basically I'm against anything that changes your crosshair in the middle of the game. That's the reason I don't play more realism-based games like BF2 and CS. I know that it's necessary for them to keep the gameplay from being ridiculous. But at the same time, sticking it IN the more sci-fi based shooters would also make it ridiculous. It's a totally different style of play.

Oh and I don't know how different games calculate recoil, but unless a particular gun has the exact same recoil pattern every time, it has an element of luck. Unless you can predict exactly where the crosshair will go after you fire your 1st shot, you're aiming based on percentages. Again it's necessary for certain games, but I don't see it working if they really do want this game to be more fast-paced than others.

[Soleft]

Originally Posted by connnnn

Oh and I don't know how different games calculate recoil, but unless a particular gun has the exact same recoil pattern every time, it has an element of luck. Unless you can predict exactly where the crosshair will go after you fire your 1st shot, you're aiming based on percentages. Again it's necessary for certain games, but I don't see it working if they really do want this game to be more fast-paced than others.

This is the only thing I was talking about, and the only thing that was reflected from your previous post. It can be predicted, you get a feel for it. Seeing as you know a bit about css. It's fair to say if you can control a 4 shot burst of an AK while standing, and do it every time, it would be called skill. After that you will have to stop firing, unlike UT. When you have the minigun as far as I know it's 0 recoil, but the gun itself isn't accurate. Again I don't mind which style it is, I made this post about increasing skill margins. Having recoil isn't a gamble(If you know how to control), it increases skill margins.

[Lexion]

I agree with all. Except that the box for a headshot needs to be very small, if ppl go down fast, say 2 shots for hitting the chest, it would need to be balanced with a fast respawn rate making it a run-kill-be killed-run back kinda game which kinda eliminates squad play on big maps.

[OCmathew1000]

yes, and dont make it too few shots, this is the future, armor is going to be good, even with better guns. i agree a headshot should kill a guy, unless he has a helmet, in which case it should be 2-3. body should be like 5-8. elsewherewhere should be like 10-15, but those would be the arms and legs, and if your hit in the leg, you slow down, or walk weird, if your hit in the arm, you accuracy is reduced. of course a medic should be able to fix this.

and as for recoil, REAL recoil makes the gun aim up. in games like UT the person stays looking straight but the bullets go farther from then reticle.
in other games recoil makes the reticle go up and makes the person look up, this is not skill its just annoying, then your shooting a rifle do you look up as you fire?

i dont really know how recoil would be successfully in this game. the UT method seems best. some guns are more accurate than others, and in like assault rifles, bursts and single shot will always be more accurate then full auto.

[Soleft]

Ye just some suggestions on increasing skill margin. I could imagine shooting somebody for 15 seconds, It's just far too long. In that time you would have sustained a good deal of damage.

The UT style will most probably be used, making the game a lot more fast paced, there is no stopping and shooting.

[Dozer]

Do we know if all the races are going to have the same amount of life? If so the alternative males will be at a big dissadvantage because their model is the biggest and easiest to hit.

[Soleft]

Oh ye I never thought about that -.- .Getting a shot on smaller races will be more difficult. I guess having a bigger class should mean having a better racial trait.

[Kard]

This isn't going to be a CS:S / BF2 style game... its going to be Quake/UT.

Therefore don't expect this realistic recoil, multiple hitboxes (other than head/body) to be used.

If you've played these games, they still have a high skill margin, and they're all still being played.

I have the realistic FPS games, and I highly doubt Huxley will follow that style... as stated by the devs, expect this to be a fast paced frag fest.

edit: and furthermore... the things the OP listed off don't necessarily equate to someone being better at FPS. my style tends to lean towards games like tribes/ut/quake. some of my buddies tend to be better at realistic combat style games like cs:s and bf2. they'll usually pwn me pretty hard if they've been playing it hardcore lately. on the other hand, if they jump in a DM with me in Q or UT.. they won't win.

and again, i have not seen it stated anywhere that huxley would employ multiple hitboxes. the different race sizes would make that extremely difficult. expect the head hitbox to be generally the same, which would mean two hitboxes... body/head.

gameplay? like i've said... UT/Quake, squad play will probably be used, but the actual combat style is frag fest, not realistic combat.

[Soleft]

Even UT has hitboxes. Although it is 2, head and body. Without this Huxley will be a bit of a disappointment.

[Kard]

Originally Posted by Soleft

Even UT has hitboxes. Although it is 2, head and body. Without this Huxley will be a bit of a disappointment.

well im sure it'll have the two hitboxes. i mean we could all hope for more than the 2, but i don't see how they can employ this when their races all have different sizes.

we know there will be a head hitbox, from the write-up on the time delayed sniper bullet.

if they put a hitbox on rest of the body (chest, legs, ect), any good FPS player is going to pick the smaller race... which would ruin balance.

[Udonis]

Originally Posted by Soleft

Having a high skill margin in a multiplayer game is important. By doing this it gives games long playability. Games such as UT, CSS have large skill margins this is why they have lasted for so long. There are such things as one man armies. Is this a bad thing? I think not. If the person has enough skill to take out a 10 man team, why not. When you look at Xfire stats you see 6 FPS games in the top10, number 2 in the top 10 at the moment being CSS.

Factors that increase skill margin:

*Multiple hit boxes, this increases skill margin because you have to aim for a specific point.

*Recoil, this increases skill margin because you have to control recoil you can not mindlessly shoot at someone.

*Players can be killed in as little as 2-3 shots, make players easy to kill, this gives higher skilled players an advantage.

*Give players the ability to move fast, this makes targets harder to hit.

*Give players accurate weapons, which in result is effected by recoil.

So what's my point? This game has the potential to be the best. I want your input. I think I will get two sides of this. MMORPG players telling me to shutup, and maybe FPS agreeing with me.

I agree with everything making this game skill base also will make the trash talk meaningfully truly on skill unlike another game where you walk into room with jackhammer and kill everyone.

[ChrisPsY]

personaly i think that killing a player in 2-3 shots kills the skill level and paves the way for campers, when u get attacked you need to have enough time to be able to react not be instagibbed, recoil doesnt require more skill it simply kills the pace of the game. Speed and the ability to move fast with the right technique and to maintain good aim over a period of over about 5-10 seconds is where skill comes in to it, not hitting a flukey head shot from behind. 'spray and pray' isnt a bad thing if your opponent cant be utterly destroyed in 2 seconds, just this way the player who can aim is 95% of the time going to win. To many fps games these days dont bring movement into it >> CS. For me there is such thing as a game being 'to' life like.
just make huxley a mmofps of quake 3