Competitions

[Ducktape]

First of all, id like to say Hey to everybody since im new to the forum.
Now, Theres probably a lot of CS/CSS players here who were doing competition(CAL, CEVO, even CPL? (and no im no talking about OGL or TWL)). Im only talking about CS/CSS because its the most popular and most played game in competition. So, do you think Huxley is the next CS? I mean by this, the next competitive game everybody will play?
The PvP look awesome and it will for sure be amazing to have some competitive matches.
But on an other hand, its a MMO. Which mean P2P. Ive barely ever seen a MMO being competitive. And also, the fact that its a game were you can level and get better stuff(even if they wont make you ubergod) can give you a certain advantage over others.
So yeah, give your opinion, do you think Huxley will become competitive? Or not? Will it be even more than CS? or do you hate competition at all and the simple idea of playing against other make you sick and you prefer to go back RPing with your cyber GF?

[connnnn]

Competitions are fueled by head to head (be it 1v1 or SMALL teams) competitions, particularly at LANs where people can easily spectate.

It's theoretically possible that Webzen could have a separate version of the game for LAN competitions (maybe it would even use the Unreal 3 networking code since it's probably more precise for LAN/small teams). But reference Blizzard's recent efforts that have taken much longer than they expected to get WOW things working locally. The big question is whether it would really be worth the resources.

In short: I don't think so. This game is being built around adding a real MMO-style system to the FPS genre. There will always be other games that focus STRICTLY on creating a solid competitive environment (UT2007 for instance), and those are much more likely to be used to that end.

[Jericho]

I don't think MMOs and a solid competitive arena are necessarily mutually exclusive. Take Guild Wars for example. Those guys set out to create a serious tactical team-based arena, and they did it. The fact that people are still innovating and perfecting new strategies years after its release is a testament to how robust they made their system. Last I heard they were having competitions for $10k grand prizes, and Guild Wars is still an MMO.

I wouldn't underestimate this game's devotion to creating the same kind of environment. From what I can tell, this will be more than EQ with guns, and thank god.

[connnnn]

In my view, comparing a game like, say, Everquest 2 to Guild Wars would be similar to comparing Huxley to UT2007 (I'm just using UT2k7 because it's going to be in the same generation of games). One is a subscription-based game with your traditional MMO focus, while another is designed for smaller-scale, PVP interactions (and no subscription cost of course).

Of course, anything by Blizzard is pretty much guaranteed to have a ton of players, and they've always had an agenda to encourage competition in all of their games. That's an important combination from a game developer in relation to this subject. They could release a plant watering game and we'd have 900,000 Koreans trying to be perfect at it

[Felix12g]

The problem I have with all this is that you're asking if a fast paced FPS is going to be competetive. In almost any game where you interact with another avatar, have a weapon (Or sometimes don't) and are allowed to kill that person (And sometimes not) you run into competition. I'm not sure what MMOs you've played, but even ones without PvP have high competition, even if it isn't in the form of PvP. Take FFXI for example, for a very long time (2-3 years?) it didn't have any form of PvP, but it was still highly competetive between players as well as linkshells (FFXI's form of guilds) Then you have older MMOs like Ultima Online that had one of the best fighting systems around that was even more competetive. Then there's games like Diablo 2: LOD which weren't exactly the same, but were still close to being MMO. The stakes were high on that when you died in pvp, especially in Hardcore mode.

Then you need to take into account a built in ranking system, rewards for beating other people, tangible ones at that. And its a given that people will be fighting over the areas, the buildings they can control, the mines to give them crap as well as showing that their outfit is the top.

In many MMOs you have inter clan rivalries, in most FPSs these clans cannot meet for the most part without scheduling it outside of the game in organised scrims or matches. In an MMO like huxley with their large battles it is highly likely that organised groups will meet and clash with each other in these new battlefields.

As for your question of getting better gear the more you win and level, it's the same with your kiddie strike game, you play longer you have more money to buy bigger guns. That game is much more imbalanced since there is a much wider variation in the usefulness of the weapons within a much shorter period. Granted a pistol can still take down another player, but for the most part a good player with an m4 will rip the person who can only afford a pistol a new asshole.

Do I think this is going to be another kiddie strike? I hope not. That game is such a restrictive and repetetive game that it has nothing on the features of Huxley. CS is always going to have a large playerbase because it's free, but I think that there are alot of people anxiously awaiting Huxley that are bored with their HL mods and want some fresh air and a new game to rip it up in.

[Jericho]

So wait, when the OP refers to "competitive", you are hoping the game itself will always be a test of skill, as opposed to a race to see who can get the best gear?

[buried]

CS is popular because it is easy for noobs to learn and go online playing against other noobs. You can still get lucky against more experienced players quite often.

In faster games like Quake and UT where a player's individual ability is more important, new players get destroyed over and over again. There is 0.0000001 % chance that a new player will be able to kill a veteran even once. This scares most new players away for good.

[Ducktape]

By competition I meant Skill based matches. Uh yeah, lemme explain.
in MMORPGs, PvP is just target ennemy, press 1, 2 , shift +4, wait, press 1 again and the ennemy is dead. This require no skill at all. Indeed theres some strategy when your with your clan on vent and plan attacks or w/e, but thats not competition. Even if , lets take Blizz for exemple, is making some Event where some clans can play against each other, thats the best thing that resemble to competition you can have.
CS is not so easy that every fucking noob can own. Yes noobs can own noobs, but its just insanely hard to get to the top. Theres a huge difference between, lets say, CAL-O and CAL-I, CAL-M and CEVO-P, etc. Most noobs who play counter-strike are 12 yr old kids who dont even know what is Cal and which CS is all about playing surf maps with their noob clan on their 64 slots server.
Now, back to Huxley. If it would have competitions, it should be more than some yearly event held by Webzen, It would have to be seasonal and with different leagues, different division, etc... I know Huxley is going to be a fast-paced game but I hope it wont be as bad as UT. Its simply so...so... I dont know how to say it...All you do is jump around firing rockets. Even if you can actually get good to BunnyRocket, is that actually skill? is that actually fun? From what ive experienced, its NOT. I would like it to be a bit like Counter-strike, where you have to actually aim and control your aim(like not jump while shooting and still hit) but more fast spaced than CS. Also with more strategic style of play, not only some defend/attack style like in CS. Something mixed between WoWs Alterac valley, BF2, CS, UT...

BTW, sorry for any mistakes/hard to understand sentences.

[connnnn]

Great, another person who thinks UT is all jumping and rockets... I won't even get into that, because someone else can always just link to the many threads where that has already been discussed.

PVP in any FPS-based game will always be competitive to some degree. But whether or not it will become a widespread competitive game (which is basically defined by its presence at major LAN events) depends on a ton of factors, some of which I briefly went into above. Ultimately, it comes down to how much time Webzen wants to spend developing netcode and game mechanics for small-scale fights, when the majority of people playing the game will be playing specifically because of the fact that it offers large-scale fighting.

[Ducktape]

Ok so you say that ppl will mainly play for large scale battles?! I doubt so. If Webzen can make a good small scale PvP, it would attract a lot of competitive players, which is a lot of ppl considering how much theres CS, BF, CoD, etc, leagues, lans and competitions.
Anyway, if Huxley is really only going to be some big 50vs50 with random ppl, sorry but its gonna suck ass. I truly not enjoy playing with noobs and there wont be any single way of actually gathering more than 20ppl you actually know to play some arranged matches.
So in other words, If theres no small scale battles, its gonna be one big fat constant 200slots public.

[buried]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=falcon+lauke

"Bunnyrocket"? HAHAHAHA.
Don't talk about what you lack knowledge in.

[Ducktape]

Originally Posted by buried

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=falcon+lauke

"Bunnyrocket"? HAHAHAHA.
Don't talk about what you lack knowledge in.

No im not a pro in UT but ive played quite a lot of times and yes all that ppl where doing is Bunnyhop and rocketing your feet.
Now, I dont give a crap about UT and your 2 cent, I want to know opinion on Competitions for Huxley.
But oh well, thanks anyway for your post, atleast you tryed.
Oh and nice job posting a Pro match, that prove your point very well. And yes, they were mainly jumping all around like bunnies. So GG, next time just dont post. thanks

[connnnn]

No competitive players are going to play a subscription-based FPS when they can play competitive non-subscription games just as easily (unless the subscription-based game is much better, and since Huxley isn't primarily being designed to cater to the competitive FPS market, you wouldn't expect that to be the case). That's all talking about playing competitively, not just randomly for fun. There might be plenty of people playing Huxley for fun, but if there's a better competition-oriented game to play, they're not going to compete in Huxley.

I do actually agree about the scale... I don't plan on spending much time in really large battles, because I prefer more organization. If anything, I'd be playing with teammates in small-scale PVP mostly.

And most bunnies can't wall dodge

[Felix12g]

There's a fundamental difference between games like UT and games like CS.

CS is based on 1 life, use it to kill as many enemies as you can. Or plant a bomb and camp. The weapons have random recoil and massive spreads so you're only accurate with the first few shots. After that, it's a randomly generated spray. As people get better they can control the spray better, but it's still random spray.

UT is not restricted to 1 life. This leads people, not to be suicidal, but to get off their asses and attack. UT lends a player mobility forcing others to aim on two axis instead of one. The movement speed is also higher letting players who are mobile survive.

But the most basic thing about UT is that the weapons don't have ranom spray. There are certain weapons with built in innacuracies, but by and far UT's gameplay is based on who has better aim, not who can spray more bullets. Insta Gib games, which are very popular as a DM type of game, are all about who can get their mouse onto a moving target the fastest. Sheer twitch skills and aiming dont get more cut and dry than that. Granted it may not be what you see as "tactical" but until the last few years, "tactical shooters" weren't the mainstream, it was whoever had the best aim won, none of this camping in buildings shit and wasting people as they go by, or using remote explosives. It was about who's aim was better and faster.



You may not think that competetive players want to come to a monthly fee MMO (Why I haven't a clue) But I personally know many different groups that i've run across over the years that are axiously awaiting Huxley. Simply for the fact that its based on twitch skills and they can all play together at once. Being able to rip into 100 other people at once is just an added benefit. Huxley is shaping up to be a great FPS, and lately looking the shitty games that have been coming out, Huxley will be a breath of fresh air from those stale FPS mods.

[connnnn]

There are lots of highly competitive players that have WOW accounts that they mess around with on the side (just as an example). That's what you're most likely to see with Huxley; some of them might play it for fun, but you're not likely to see top level players practicing it every day for LAN competitions (which is my definition of a competitive game). But as I mentioned that's just based on the assumption that Webzen is putting its resources into the large-scale aspects of the game, which would lead one to believe that the small-scale fighting won't likely be as refined as other games that will specialize in it.

[makavelli914]

Theres just too much fps addicts (Yeah i aply alot myself but my point is otehrwise, like my brothe rhe plays Shadowbane so every game he plays or sees me play he tries to relate it to SB. My point being just caus eit says fps doesnt mena its the enxt bf2 the next css the next unreal ur forgetting the whole point of it being an MMO (i saw one guy post taht MMo's dont have solid comp). It's not some FPS on a big map. It has RPg elements to it, theres a whole economic system, a whole quest system (mission).

[slick1537]

I am willing to bet there will be some type of venue for small teams to compete on in huxley, got no source to back it up though, pure speculation.

[Felix12g]

What about the whole "4 man squads battle in the depths of the lunarite mines to decide which side controls it" quote. There's other of a similar nature that even within the large battles there will be small instances where squads decide things.

[Ducktape]

Thanks for sharing your opinion guys.
The way its heading it seems like there wont be much competitions, but more likely only large scale battles. I know that since its a RPG, its not really supposed to be competition axed, since theres quests, missions, economy, and what else, but as of the PvP; it would have been awesome to have some small 4v4/5v5 battles. Its still a FPS and even if it costs something per month, it wont stop some competitive players. Even more if it gets really popular; ppl wont mind paying per month since there will be plenty of competitions and lans to win prizes and money.
Anyway, we will soon enought see what this game is made of and if its worth to have competitions or not.
Sorry again for strange sentences and thanks again for your opinions.